new president

[samar]

I join Mr. Jumblat that we insist to know all the truth especially concerning who
decid our new president

[Farah.]

akeed it'll be l aghlabieh l niebieh that'll decide, ennou it's a te7sil 7assel... unless we split up

[samar]

I mean that we should remember all other parties about our power ahsan ma yinsou

[samar]

I think that from now we should go to the street and push Lah... to go outttttt

[hady]

what do you think about me to be the next president iza laghayna el ta2ifiyyeh el siyesiyyeh ? :d , I think the "Batrak" 7a y3azzebna shway howwi w mister 3oon, 3oon lamma reje3 3al balad reje3 w biraso el ri2eseh w be3te2ed el Batrak ra7 yed3amo la2inno el mawarneh khtaro 3oon za3imon el ta2ifi .. wel ness el mo3tadileen metel nasib la7oud sa22atouhon la2inno 3am ye7lamo bira2iss metel 3oon yrajje3 amjed el 7okom el marouni ..

[hady]

Jomblat afham rajol siyeseh bi hal balad .. lezem nsa22ett lahoud kein min zamen, w halla2 lezem nesma3 min jomblat w n2arrer ne7na meen el ra2iss ..

[Farah.]

Nassib Lahoud could have been the best man for the post and not only because he's maronite, he's really good for it...

[Blah]

Oh for god sake ppl wake up!

Lahoud is not the problem now..the problem is Lahoud successor..I mean it doesn`t matter if Jumblatt has the majority..You cannot bypass the batrak not even if 128 agreed on it!..

The problem now is to find a suitable replacement that all Lebanese agree on.
You cannot have a president if the Batrak boycott him or PSP boycott him or Hizballah boycott him.....

The problem now is that FM,with all due respect,wants a puppet for a president.such as Nassib Lahoud (for god sake he lost the elections!)or Johnny Abdo or Ghattas ......

The batrak won`t agree on this..that is the problem

any other suggestions?

[AbouBalad]

Good thread Samar, and I am glad to see your interesting posts more frequently.

Today Lahoud refused to sign the decrees, and he is insulting the whole government, the whole parliament and the whole poeple that elected this parliamant. He is taking himself for God.

However, this does not surprise me. What really disappoints me is the "looser" attitude of the majority in parliamant. I dont know what kind of deals they are doing, and I dont consider that anyone, be it the batrak or the skandar, have any right of veto.. I just dont see it in the constitution.

I did not vote FM or PSP or KC or LF to see them behave weakly and attribute this new constitutional right to Mr Batrak or Mr Skandar. If they do, THEY WOULD BETRAY ME AND ALL THOSE WHO ELECTED THEM...And they will have to assume the consequences.
Regards.

[Bullet Magnet]

allah hariri joumblatt w bas!!! u cant imagine how much joumblatt zakeh! ya3neh ka2ano he has two brains on his head! allah yi7mi howeh wel cheikh sa3ed... lahhoud kaleb soureh, mmachyino 3a zaw2on, w howeh msibeh la hal balad... law ken nasib lahoud aw botros 7areb, keno byetla3o bi lebnen jdid! w law leghyo el ta2ifeh el siyeseh, ken moumkin el mar7oum rafic el hariri ykoun ra2is... Allah yer7amak ya abou baha2....

Dudette,

The overflow of romanticism flowing from your post, as I can see, has affected your perception of Nassib Lahoud and Boutros Harb. Please take the time to check their accomplishments before thinking they can do anything new to their village, even less for Lebanon.

Rgds,

[Bullet Magnet]

If it's about class, I rest my case. Nothing more to discuss. Nassib has definitely class. I thought Emile has too with his bright white suits, not to mention the red Speedo.

[independent]

If it's about class, I rest my case. Nothing more to discuss. Nassib has definitely class. I thought Emile has too with his bright white suits, not to mention the red Speedo.
Well I never thought emile lahoud has class. he can't even talk and he comes from the military school with a 100% military mentality. I think a good president need to be tolerant, and to show moderation, education, charisma, and to be reasonable logical and show confidence. He needs to be trustworthy, honnest and liberal (to a certain context). I found all those qualities in Nassib, and boutros harb, but none in Emile.

[hala]

BM who's ur favorite candidate for the presidential elections?

akid other than nassib lahoud and boutross harb ?
any suggestions ?

[AbouBalad]

My personal candiate is Bullet Magnet... unless he is not maronite..
What do you guys think? (I think he has most of the required qualities).

[Blah]

Dreamers..

Snap back to reality ppl ...this is Lebanon not utopia

Oh for god sake ppl wake up!

Lahoud is not the problem now..the problem is Lahoud successor..I mean it doesn`t matter if Jumblatt has the majority..You cannot bypass the batrak not even if 128 agreed on it!..

The problem now is to find a suitable replacement that all Lebanese agree on.
You cannot have a president if the Batrak boycott him or PSP boycott him or Hizballah boycott him.....

The problem now is that FM,with all due respect,wants a puppet for a president.such as Nassib Lahoud (for god sake he lost the elections!)or Johnny Abdo or Ghattas ......

The batrak won`t agree on this..that is the problem

any other suggestions?


The only real candidates for the presidency are either GMA or JeaJea

Choose one or stay with Lahoud.

[Ana]

I'd rather stay with La77oud!!!!

And your candidates for the president are very true: it's either Ja3ja3 or GMA.... Ya rabbi tnajjina!

[AbouBalad]

You are much anticipating.. If it is after 2 years, this is much time and until then, a new situation can arise with new candidates etc.
For the time being, Lahoud stays...

100 Lahoud wala marra GMA : 3al 2alileh Lahoud is predictable...GMA kel se3a bi 3a2el.

10000 marra Ja3ja3 wala marra GMA... If you are worried about sectarianism and Ta3assob, then what GMA showed in one month exceeds what SJ did in a lifetime.

Finally, the best candidate of the moment is Boutros Harb (though I personnaly admire Samir Franjieh, but he has few chances unfortunately). If the Batrak has a veto on Boutros Harb, then Bhannih la ghobtto min kill albi bravo.

[Blah]

yea i know..so we should stop nagging and stuff.

and btw i prefer GMA..When ja3ja3 comes back you`ll understand why.

Boutros harb is is weak.

[Wael]

تحدثت " السفير " عن ان الخلافات على التعيينات والجدل السياسي على خلفية ما هو مرتقب من تقرير ميليس وزيارة الرئيس لحود الى نيويورك ، كلها كانت مادة السجال السياسي في البلاد . وتطرقت الى حديث جنبلاط على المسارعة لتشكيل جبهة سياسية تخوض حربا لاجل " عزل الرئيس لحود ومنع العماد عون من التحول الى مرشح جدي لرئاسة الجمهورية " . ورد العماد عون عليه انه " يستغرب ان يتحدث جنبلاط باسم كل هذه القوى ولا اعرف اذا كان مفوض من قبلها للنطق باسمها . وكلامه مزاح لا يستحق التعليق " . كما أوردت " السفير " عظة البطريرك صفير الذي اعتبر ان تزاحم الطوائف على احتلال المراكز خروج عن اتفاق الطائف .

[Bullet Magnet]

My personal candiate is Bullet Magnet... unless he is not maronite..
What do you guys think? (I think he has most of the required qualities).

Dommagio AB, I can't be president in this system.

But thanks for the compliments.

[Bullet Magnet]

BM who's ur favorite candidate for the presidential elections?

akid other than nassib lahoud and boutross harb ?
any suggestions ?

Hala,

I don't care about the president. What I care about is a good system. In a good system, you can have any kind of president and the system will still be stable. Ideally the president will have the qualities mentionned by several on this thread.

Regarding decency, Nassib Lahoud got none.

Regarding spine and principles, Boutros got none.

So both are eliminated.

[AbouBalad]

BM, Nassib Lahoud might be eliminated for anything but decency... Unless you have data I miss of course.

[Bold_Eagle]

Dreamers..

Snap back to reality ppl ...this is Lebanon not utopia




The only real candidates for the presidency are either GMA or JeaJea

Choose one or stay with Lahoud.

Khalas enta 7asamta ben JeaJea and AMG Mercedis I mean GMA..
if that is what u want akid we will choose JAeJae and i wont go to details since my friends here discussed that .

[Bullet Magnet]

BM, Nassib Lahoud might be eliminated for anything but decency... Unless you have data I miss of course.


It seems that I do have some. And you can get it too. If you live in Lebanon, take a drive to Baabdath, his village, and have a shawarma at "Ya Hala!" (one of the best shawarma in Lebanon btw). While having your shawarma engage in conversations with individuals from Baabdath and ask them about decent Mr. Lahoud. You will hear many interesting things. The man behind the mask.

[independent]

Regarding decency, Nassib Lahoud got none.

Regarding spine and principles, Boutros got none.

So both are eliminated.
Amazing how people can be made non decent and with no principles, when we don't agree with them ideologically.

Peace.

[AbouBalad]

BM, sorry to say that, but though I am not questioning the intention, but your message is exactly what you would call propaganda if you hear it on someone you appreciate.

Until I will have the pleasure to go to Baabdath and have the possibility to have people open their hearts to me and talk franckly, I cannot assume what you are alluding at, and I keep my opinion until then.

Regards.

[Bullet Magnet]

Right move dude. Never take an opinion for granted.

Best Case scenario: you would use it to dig deeper.
Worst Case Scenario: you would use it to discredit me ;)

Enjoy,

[samar]

In my opinion we should choose the OPPOSITE of The trowka : Lahhoud, Iskandar(GMA) and finally Sl.Frangieh. Lets think seriously who is really the man who brings the crise
cardiaque for them....

[Blah]

PPL PPL The presidency is a christian position and the batrak will NOT allow muslims to choose the next president.

Just Like Sunnies elected Sanyora and Shi`ite elected Berri the christians will choose the president!

So stop the talk about Nassib and Boutros.

it`s either GMA or ja3ja3.

[Farah.]

If sl franjieh is a president, I'll leave the country
Thank you Blah for showing FPM laic intentions :)

[Farah.]

No matter what the batrak says... Imagine PSP, Hizb, Amal or even FM though they're less further to FPM ta ma n2oul much closer among these parties, imagine them electing GMA ... So go and play outside.

[AbouBalad]

Blah, big error.
The constituiton stipulates that the president is elected by the parliament and NOT by the Batrak. Please read the constitution and stop spreading unbased ideas. The batrak might have an opinion, but this must not mean he "chooses" the president. Ya habibi dont fake the facts:PM Sanyoura was choosen by the parliament majority and not by the Mufti.

The presidenvy nightmare is a tremendously powerful position that afects al the Lebnese people and NOT only the christians. And any abuse of power, a la Lahoud, is catastrophic to all Lebanese and not only to Christians. (unless we agree on reforming the presidency's unbalanced authorities )

Hence, the muslims have also, AT LEAST, the right to participate in the choice of the president, and to veto anyone they dont trust, whether he is in love or not with the Skandar, the Batrak, or the real Batrak Sleimenn.
Regards.

[Farah.]

Ye3ni I'm wondering if the mufti Kabbani opposed removing karami what would the others think about us (shu haida, la wen ekhdeen l balad, ma32oul, baddon y2asselmou l balad baddon ye3emlouna metel ksa...) and also what sunnites would have done... Ye3ni if they accept mufti's refusal I prefer to shift to a chiite !!

[Blah]

AbouBalad..once again this is Lebanon you are talking about..get back from Utopia

Let me give you an example..Almost all Lebanese and the world didn`t want Berri to become the house speaker he didn`t have ANY majority in the parliament yet because he was the only Shi`ite choice the others had no choice.

now imagine this let`s say PSP,Amal,Hib,FM(about 90 deputies) elected Nassib Lahoud or Harb as a president but the batrak boycotted him?what will happen?

[independent]

now imagine this let`s say PSP,Amal,Hib,FM(about 90 deputies) elected Nassib Lahoud or Harb as a president but the batrak boycotted him?what will happen?
Maybe you can help us answering this question.... and I will add another question (which IMHO is much more scary), let's suppose the Batrak supported only one candidate (which is GMA), and the international community leaned towards him, what will happen?

[Farah.]

blah you might have forgotten smthg, Boutros Harb did win the elections in his area... Anyways, as far as I know entou 3elmeniyeen, why is that you care that much about the batrak's opinion and never ever listen to the mufti's one , w ma bass hek you call him a mwazzaf w dunno what ? We wont open old files, and I don't have a problem with deputees visiting religious men, but your party is a laic one , isn;t it ?

[Blah]

independent Thats what gonna happen after Lahoud..
farah whats this entou thing?i only represent myself...and trust me there is no sush thing as "secular"in Lebanon.

back to the thread Boutros won but still you can`t make him president with more powerfull christian figures and let`s face it the christian street will only accept GMA or Ja3ja3 as the president.

to cut it to the point any president candidate must have the batrak blessing not sunnite or shi`tes mufti,not amal,not hizb not psp not fm

we`ll have to deal with this fact.

[AbouBalad]

AbouBalad..once again this is Lebanon you are talking about..get back from Utopia

Let me give you an example..Almost all Lebanese and the world didn`t want Berri to become the house speaker he didn`t have ANY majority in the parliament yet because he was the only Shi`ite choice the others had no choice.

now imagine this let`s say PSP,Amal,Hib,FM(about 90 deputies) elected Nassib Lahoud or Harb as a president but the batrak boycotted him?what will happen?
You must be confused for having switched the constitutions of Lebanon and Utopia.
Since we are in Lebanon, we have to respect the constitution of Lebanon.
If the constitution in Utopia stipulates that the president is chosen by bthe Batrak, the Speaker by Mufti-alJa3fari, and the MP by al Mufti, then I agree with you utopians, let them appoint them. As for me, I am living in LEBANON and I respect the constitution of Lebanon.

[Bullet Magnet]

AbouBalad,

The constitution says that the president is elected by MPs and the national pact (updated with Taef) that the president is christian, i.e. representing the Christian community. So the real dynamics on the ground, as you might have witnessed with KC from 2001 to 2005, is that most christian MPs will abide by the Batrak's position. If you go back to 1988 and see how the US and Syria tried to impose Mikhael Daher and lo and behold, they could not do it. Again, the difference is between theory and practice.

Rgds,

[mia]

Hi BM,

Maybe all what u say is true but what is ur opinion about these traditions?

[Bullet Magnet]

Hi BM,

Maybe all what u say is true but what is ur opinion about these traditions?

Hi Mia,

I see that you appointed yourself as BM's personal shrink ;)

Traditions are usually an impedement to innovation, change and evolution. On the other hand they are quite effective at keeping a society well integrated. So like most traditions, they have their good side and their bad side.

The bad side is that these traditions are discriminatory and preclude the majority of the population from vying to certain positions. Hence this has a tendency to encourage cryonism and corruption.

The good side is that they seem to alleviate the fears of some minorities.

The problem is that the bad side is greater that the good one, in my opinion and hence make this sytem archaic and byzantine. However, one cannot come and decide to scrap it without taking into consideration the hidden dynamics lying beneath it. So for this archaic system to be changed, it is imperative that we start by changing the citizens' mentality regarding secularism and the role of religion. If we are able to change enough groups view on these topics, then a secular system might emerge and these archaic traditions will be relegued to the History classes.

Rgds,

[mia]

true BM, and since the GMA says he is non ta2ifi will he accept that oly the christians choosed him?

if yes, what do u think the consequences on FPMa

[Bullet Magnet]

Mia,

I cannot speculate what Michel Aoun's intentions are but I can speculate based on previous patterns observed. I cannot imagine Michel Aoun's accepting to be a christian president, however I can imagine Michel Aoun being cornered into being a christian president and he falls for it.

The consequences for FPM are limited since, in my opinion, most core members are emotional and will follow him whatever the case. Not that FPM is an exception. I believe all present followers of major parties are emotional, blind and not using their critical thinking.

Hence, what I alluded about in my previous post (changing citizens) is a mission impossible in the present polarized context.

[Jk2k]

As my first post on this thread, I like to give my most honest and hopfull wish that we change the constitution just this once so that haifa wehbe be elected president.
She will be breaking new millstones for women in lebanon.
I think that she will do a lot to ease the shiite and their sentiment about the central government and the army. And do a lot for the mahroumeen.
She will also change the image that the west has or the arab world.
I also want to see her negotiating with hassan nasrallah to disarm hizballah,
As well as see her attend the arab league sumits and negotiate with the arab leaders...

So who is with me, haifa wehbe for president??

[Saidon]

So who is with me, haifa wehbe for president??

hehhe...

they will kill her..................... suicide bombing ;)

[Farah.]

I suggest for maryam nour :P ...........................................

[AbouBalad]

AbouBalad,
The constitution says that the president is elected by MPs and the national pact (updated with Taef) that the president is christian, i.e. representing the Christian community. So the real dynamics on the ground, as you might have witnessed with KC from 2001 to 2005, is that most christian MPs will abide by the Batrak's position. If you go back to 1988 and see how the US and Syria tried to impose Mikhael Daher and lo and behold, they could not do it. Again, the difference is between theory and practice.
Rgds,

- In green you talk about the national pact of Taef, that's great. I remind you that the most important essential point in Taef is that Taef stipulates the CANCELLATION OF THE SECTARIAN SYSTEM. It is surprising how you misread the essence of the agreement... This is precisely what leads you to do wrong extrapolations and wrong "practice", such as the red part of your text. Until then, you should think about Tawefok, which means that the president must be accepted by all Lebanese parties, and not someone that the Batrak imposes on the people. This would be "practice" in the Vatican but not in Lebanon... neither in theory nor in practice.

- The text in red in your post is totally wrong. The president DOES represent all the Lebanese and his activities affect the life of all Lebanese. The national pact only says that he is Christian (TEMPORARILY), and your extrapolation is based on a wrong understanding of the national pact. It is so simple… if the president was to be chosen by Christians, the constitution would not state so clearly that he is chosen by al MP’s. Legislators usually avoid to say something explicitly when they want it implicitly to be practiced in a different manner. In this case, at least they don’t say it!

Please remember that Muslims suffered from where Lahoud drove the country, economically and politically, much more than Christians. They will never accept yet another arrogant hater like Aoun for example.

- The text in blue is perfectly what you should say to yourself. Practice is that the president's actions and especially his abuse of power affects the life of all Lebanese and not only Christians, which is the case of the Batrak for example. While practice and common sense dictates that the Batrak be chosen by Christians only, it surely dictates that the president be chosen by all Lebanese.

Practice and common sense also dictates that the president signs directly the cabinet's decrees even if his signature is required in theory FOR NOTIFICATION. This is not what is being practiced, under the euphoric applauds and encouragements of the Batrak and the Skandar... fekron inno they will change the practice and common sense in their favor and fake the Taef agreements in their favor. But I assure you that this will blow it up and it will return against their plans.

Regards.